Curse

JR · Mar 28, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Wouldn't Blackout be a good call for a build so heavy in Domination for skill denial? I would think that blacking out an opponent for 7 seconds (given so many att points) would be pretty good call. All the same, I have no idea what I would take out of your build.

In arena where positioning is not important, yes. However in GvG you would have to over-extend hugely to blackout a monk on spike for example. Mesmers just aren't built for that, too squishy.

As for Dom at 16; I really like getting the most damage out of characters as possible. If that shatter kills a target with 1 hp to spare, then it was worth the spec.

Valkyries · Mar 29, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

In arena where positioning is not important, yes. However in GvG you would have to over-extend hugely to blackout a monk on spike for example. Mesmers just aren't built for that, too squishy.

As for Dom at 16; I really like getting the most damage out of characters as possible. If that shatter kills a target with 1 hp to spare, then it was worth the spec.

I notice how squishy they really are after playing many hours yesterday with that new build

Problem was Im so used to being able to take a Warrior on myself with my other build, that with this one I just couldn't handle it. Blackout wasn't so good because I would get owned as soon as I ran out of the backlines. I don't think this build is set for TA, there just isn't enough people and control. However, that being said when I actually had the chance to do control a Monk or another Mesmer they literally had no chance to do anything. Cry of Frustration with the Gylph was just mean... and Power Drain was incredible for getting a ton of energy back. Gylph is almost like an Echo in a way, only its very fast and not much energy. I was comparing the two, which is really the better? Echo or Glyph???

If we take a look at both:

Echo
Enchantment Spell
5E
1S
30 Recharge

For 20 seconds, Echo is replaced with the next skill you use. Echo acts as this skill for 20 seconds.

Glyph
5E
1S
15 Recharge

For 15 seconds, your next Spell instantly recharges.
The huge plus for the Glyph is the recharge time is cut in half. So basically allows you to cast two spells at the same time, more or less. Echo more or less does the same thing since you actually copy the spell. The the advantage I see is that with the Glyph you can pick whatever you want to recharge and basically always keep this active (15 s duration + 15 s recharge).

Is there any other advantages for using one or the other? I haven't really tried Echo, but the Gylph is pretty awesome. Hopefully Ill bring this to GVG and learn how to play. Its very different from my other mesmer build (Which is what makes this game so much fun) :P

JR · Mar 29, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

That is the problem with arena. Highly offensive builds are hugely effective, but you just aren't going to last long enough to do the damage without a fairly competant monk. However, once you DO get on a team with a competant monk you can really have fun.

On the odd occasion that I do RA these days, dom mesmer one character type I love to have on my team, if played well. For the same reason that I prefer Warriors that are entirely offensive, and not packing two or three defensive skills. Whilst they may be more effective on teams without monks, on a team with a monk they will just be a gimp.

Valkyries · Mar 29, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

That is the problem with arena. Highly offensive builds are hugely effective, but you just aren't going to last long enough to do the damage without a fairly competant monk. However, once you DO get on a team with a competant monk you can really have fun.

On the odd occasion that I do RA these days, dom mesmer one character type I love to have on my team, if played well. For the same reason that I prefer Warriors that are entirely offensive, and not packing two or three defensive skills. Whilst they may be more effective on teams without monks, on a team with a monk they will just be a gimp.

I know exactly what you mean. Its like two completely different games.

If you have a really great team, you don't need to have those defensive skills, you can just dish out the damage and rely on the Monk to heal you. Problem is a lot of the time its PUGs and not many people are really aware of what is going on. I cannot even count how often I have to ask for a res after about 15-20 seconds of them still trying to fight them off. Im sorry but you should know right away if a member goes down to res them. 3-4 is such a huge handicap in this game but people just don't get it. Hell, I've only been playing for a month and this was one of the first things I learnt.

That being said, I really cannot wait to get to GVG and play this. I find because I am pretty new to Dom builds that I need some practice and unless I get lucky and have a really good group Ill get blasted by the Warrior.... The Ineptitude build I run solves all that.

Edit:

I have a semi-stupid/noob question. Maybe someone can answer.

Can you see what Enchantment is cast on your oponent? And furthermore what Hexes are cast on your Allies?? I realize the little "Up Arrow" and "Down Arrow" Signals which one is on but apart from actually having the enemy targetted to see what they cast is it possible to know what is on other chars or just yourself? Im just curious, maybe Im making things harder on myself. Sorry if this is obvious

JR · Mar 29, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Can you see what Enchantment is cast on your oponent? And furthermore what Hexes are cast on your Allies?? I realize the little "Up Arrow" and "Down Arrow" Signals which one is on but apart from actually having the enemy targetted to see what they cast is it possible to know what is on other chars or just yourself? Im just curious, maybe Im making things harder on myself. Sorry if this is obvious

Other than watching for it being applied, or seeing it's effect (such as the animation around a life bonded person when they take damage); no, you can't.

Valkyries · Mar 29, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

heh... thats what I thought but I wanted to make sure I wasn't being stupid! LOL!

thanks for the info... Ill have to pay extra attention.

Ole Man Bourbon · Mar 29, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

In the Arenas I'd bring at least some sort of defensive skill, just to keep you from getting killed by utter noobs. When you get that good monk, you'll only be one skill short, really.

whatnow? · Mar 29, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

just look at the little yellow up-arrow on your opponent or purple down-arrow on your pary list

LouAl · Mar 29, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Here's a question (haven't seen it answered yet, but I could have missed something)

What type of mask are you using?
Your attributes are at 11, 15, and 11 and only runes are listed...I would assume that it is a Dom mask but I thought I'd ask

(also too lazy to add up the att distribution to see where it was)

As far as the difference between glyph of renewal and echo:

IMHO Glyph of Renewal works better for spells with a long recharge. You can effectively reduce the recharge of a spell from 60 seconds to 15 seconds and it makes it much more usable.
Echo also works well for this but not quite as well as Glyph. Echo works MUCH better for spells with a short recharge that you want to be able to apply to more people. Also echo (elite) can be used on any skill and glyphs only apply to spells

I like to use echo with spells that I will be able to cast them at least twice with the echo'd copy. A 10 second recharge spell works well because it can be cast 4 times before your echo runs out (assuming a + enchant wep). I like to use glyph on things that I want to use twice and then wait out the recharge and then use twice again (power drainworks well and ethereal burden is fun...)

anyway those are my thoughts, sorry it is so rambling...

Valkyries · Mar 29, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

In the Arenas I'd bring at least some sort of defensive skill, just to keep you from getting killed by utter noobs. When you get that good monk, you'll only be one skill short, really.

What do you mean by one skill short? Don't really understand...

You are right though, Im going to keep this away from TA and focus on HA/GVG. Its much better suited there.

Quote:

just look at the little yellow up-arrow on your opponent or purple down-arrow on your pary list

Ya I knew about these but I wasn't sure if I could tell exactly what skill was being used. So I have to try and catch them when they cast I guess!

Also, what do you think is better? Power Leak, Power Spike or Perhaps something completely different. lol! Those were the two I was considering.

Just to recap. Im using the following (JR Was right about Blackout, can't even get close to a Monk with it in HA/GVG. I would get trashed before even getting half way there).

Mesmer
Fast Casting: 11 - Minor (+1)
Domination Magic: 15 - Superior (+3)
Illusion Magic: 0
Inspiration Magic: 11 - Minor (+1)

Health Penalty: -75
Unused Points: 1
(May change it up for 16 Dom but currently playing with this)

Glyph of Renewal
Cry Of Frustration
Diversion
Power Drain
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Power Leak/Power Spike/Something I haven't thought of
Res Signet

Anymore suggestions??

Valkyries · Mar 29, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

Here's a question (haven't seen it answered yet, but I could have missed something)

What type of mask are you using?
Your attributes are at 11, 15, and 11 and only runes are listed...I would assume that it is a Dom mask but I thought I'd ask

(also too lazy to add up the att distribution to see where it was)

As far as the difference between glyph of renewal and echo:

IMHO Glyph of Renewal works better for spells with a long recharge. You can effectively reduce the recharge of a spell from 60 seconds to 15 seconds and it makes it much more usable.
Echo also works well for this but not quite as well as Glyph. Echo works MUCH better for spells with a short recharge that you want to be able to apply to more people. Also echo (elite) can be used on any skill and glyphs only apply to spells

I like to use echo with spells that I will be able to cast them at least twice with the echo'd copy. A 10 second recharge spell works well because it can be cast 4 times before your echo runs out (assuming a + enchant wep). I like to use glyph on things that I want to use twice and then wait out the recharge and then use twice again (power drainworks well and ethereal burden is fun...)

anyway those are my thoughts, sorry it is so rambling...

Im using Dom Mask yes.

In addition, most things in this build are 25 Recharge. So I'd assume Glyph would be the better call. There is only 1 thing (Diversion) that is 10 Recharge and thats something Ill probably half spam anyways against annoying Spellcasters. Everything else is basically 20+.

So that helps. Ill stick with the Glyph!!

LouAl · Mar 31, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

That is what I'd do...

For a spell that is 25 seconds or so you are MUCH better off with the glyph. With echo you only get to use it once during the duration of the echo'd copy and then you have to wait 30 seconds for Echo to recharge. It turns your second copy into a spell with recharge of 55 seconds

With the glyph you can either keep it at a constant 15 second recharge or go for 2 immediate and then 25 second recharge. Saves 30 seconds over Echo.

But, like you said if you were to use diversion more it would be a good one to use with Echo...since you don't use it tons, well...

JR · Mar 31, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Also, what do you think is better? Power Leak, Power Spike or Perhaps something completely different. lol! Those were the two I was considering.

If you are decent on interrupt, Power Leak is an absolutely brutal skill. Power Spike can be described almost in its entirety by the sound "meh".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Glyph of Renewal
Cry Of Frustration
Diversion
Power Drain
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Power Leak
Res Signet

Looks good.

Valkyries · Mar 31, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Ok perfect!

So Ill run the following:

Glyph of Renewal
Cry Of Frustration
Diversion
Power Drain
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Power Leak
Res Signet

I have one more quick question. Is this better suited for HA/GVG or is the ESurge build better? The reason I ask is because in HA I have a hard time getting a group. I say Im a Dom Glyph Mesmer and the only question I get is "Are you E-Surge".. when I say no I don't get a response.

Is ESurge that much better than what I have posted above??

JR · Mar 31, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

I have one more quick question. Is this better suited for HA/GVG or is the ESurge build? The reason I ask is because in HA I have a hard time getting a group sometimes. I say Im a Dom Glyph Mesmer and the only question I get is "Are you E-Surge".. when I say no I don't get a response.

Is ESurge that much better than what I have posted above??

The standard ESurge/Burn/SoW mesmer is a solid edenial build. It can plug into just about anything. The difference between a Glyph Dom and a Surge mesmer, is skill.

A mediocre mesmer would probably be far more usefull playing a Surger, because it quite simply is hard to get wrong. They can just find a target, karate chop their keyboard, and still get a fairly good result.

A decent mesmer would probably be far more effective playing a Glyph Dom, because you can cause a lot more disruption if you know how and when to use your skills, and on which target.

Both have a place in HA and GvG, although due to the nature of PuGs and the Surge Mesmer's simplicity, you will probably get into more groups with a standard surge build.

Hermessar · Mar 31, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Ok perfect!

So Ill run the following:

Glyph of Renewal
Cry Of Frustration
Diversion
Power Drain
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Power Leak
Res Signet

I have one more quick question. Is this better suited for HA/GVG or is the ESurge build? The reason I ask is because in HA I have a hard time getting a group sometimes. I say Im a Dom Glyph Mesmer and the only question I get is "Are you E-Surge".. when I say no I don't get a response.

Is ESurge that much better than what I have posted above??

Getting the same here.
People just want the e-Denial. However, I played e-denail and I don't think it's really that powerfull, as it doesn't really kill anything. (well it does but not quite as rapid or devastating)
With E-denail you better have a good team to finish the others off. And if there are 2 monks on the opposite team, it's kinde of annoying because you can't really drain 2 monks at a time.
O energy doesn't kill (and thus, completely shut down a monk) while 0 health does.
I'd opt for a build that's a little more damaging and not as "let's go berserk with drain skills".

just my 2 cents

Valkyries · Mar 31, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

The standard ESurge/Burn/SoW mesmer is a solid edenial build. It can plug into just about anything. The difference between a Glyph Dom and a Surge mesmer, is skill.

A mediocre mesmer would probably be far more usefull playing a Surger, because it quite simply is hard to get wrong. They can just find a target, karate chop their keyboard, and still get a fairly good result.

A decent mesmer would probably be far more effective playing a Glyph Dom, because you can cause a lot more disruption if you know how and when to use your skills, and on which target.

Both have a place in HA and GvG, although due to the nature of PuGs and the Surge Mesmer's simplicity, you will probably get into more groups with a standard surge build.

Thanks for the response JR, however thats really unfortunate...

Just because I feel that the Glyph Mesmer is probably even better. Yes the other one is good and takes care of a lot of energy from Monks, etc, but the one I posted above is so good on distruption with Diverson, Cry of Frustration, etc...

I agree that this is harder to play but how can I practice this build when no one will allow me into their team without being an ESurger? Makes it really tough....

Plus, I think if I had to go ESurge I would have to use some skills from here. Mostly Diverson. Its just way too good.

LightningHell · Mar 31, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Is ESurge that much better than what I have posted above??

The ESurge is just more popular, that's all. Also, you don't find good Domination mesmers everyday.

EDIT: Since you posted just before my post, I might just well adjust a bit.

IMO, if you have that kind of a problem going in a HA fight, get your Guild to GvG with you.

Valkyries · Mar 31, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermessar

Getting the same here.
People just want the e-Denial. However, I played e-denail and I don't think it's really that powerfull, as it doesn't really kill anything. (well it does but not quite as rapid or devastating)
With E-denail you better have a good team to finish the others off. And if there are 2 monks on the opposite team, it's kinde of annoying because you can't really drain 2 monks at a time.
O energy doesn't kill (and thus, completely shut down a monk) while 0 health does.
I'd opt for a build that's a little more damaging and not as "let's go berserk with drain skills".

just my 2 cents

Im glad it isn't just me!

And I agree with this, I think Edenial isn't the greatest but apparently everyone else thinks they are... and thats the problem. I had similar issues when I played WoW... Let me use my spec its good... then I get the typical "but its not this cookie cutter build that everyone else plays, go change"...

I really think that if played correctly my build will have better distuption. That being said I have seen the ESurger in action and it does do some nice damage (probably more than mine) but as you said you can really only focus on one at a time.

Quote:

The ESurge is just more popular, that's all. Also, you don't find good Domination mesmers everyday.

EDIT: Since you posted just before my post, I might just well adjust a bit.

IMO, if you have that kind of a problem going in a HA fight, get your Guild to GvG with you.

Problem is Im in a pretty small guild (like 15 people) and to be honest, they are not all that active and only 1 or 2 plays PVP at all. So that makes it quite difficult.

Im considering leaving and finding another guild but the members are so nice and friendly and that makes it a little hard as well....

EDIT:

One more thing I thought about.

Is Shatter Enchantment better than Shatter Hex overall? Reason Im asking is because I already have drain enchantment and no Hex removal at all. In addition to that, they are the same Energy cost and the Hex does an AoE burst instead of just the damage to the one foe.... of course the AoE is just people around the char and mostly will have to be used against Warriors.... Just curious what you guys thought.

LightningHell · Mar 31, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57

It really depends on the rest of your group - I mean the Shatter Enchantment/Hex thing. IMHO.